WebDU
Disclaimer: I did not pay for the tickets: I won them through BuilderAU.
I think it is important, that I as a female in the IT world, blog about my experiences at WebDU, particularly after the discussions of late concerning women in conferences, both attending and presenting.
I turned up to Web Essentials/Directions (Essential Directions?) in 2005 and 2006, both were really seriously cool. But they were cooler than I actually realised: I felt as though these conferences was occurring in a safe and happy environment, and I'm sorry to the fantastic team behind Web Directions that I sort of took it for granted. I realised how I took that for granted at WebDU.
I did experience behaviours that I felt were unacceptable at that conference. And it wasn't from the audience; it was from the speakers. Though admittedly, not from the Adobe/Macromedia sales team. Though the behaviour has coloured my perception of that corporation.
a. They opened up the conference with a cartoon depiction of a housewife beheading, exploding and poisoning her family. It is in serious bad taste for numerous reasons: one, it's an inauspicious start, two, it shows that Aussie men still think of women as being housewives and not professionals (all of the other characters were male). Males thought that was funny; I don't think many women did. I certainly didn't. Nearly all depictions of developers or IT people in these cartoons were male.
b. Ian Henshaw from Sitening decided to use a picture of a busty bikini model as part of his slideshow with the explanation "he didn't expect so many women". I was shocked. I felt like an outsider simply because of my gender. You know what? I don't care if you know you are giving that presentation only to men, that slide is still not OK.
c. In the WebJam, there were pictorial representations of sex. I might be a prude, but still when it has become acceptable to display those sorts of charicatures at a professional setting? And yes, WebDU is a professional setting. You have invited people, from all backgrounds, all places, all ages, all genders, to come. For a lone female from another state, that's quite a brave thing to do. You have to ensure that they all feel safe and welcome. You wouldn't see this behaviour anywhere else.
d. In the WebJam again. Someone was showing us some characters he had made (or had found, for a game or online reality) that he called Hef (a cross between Hugh Hefner and a cow) and his 'playgirl' performing in just a bikini. Does anyone think that would make me feel welcome?
e. In the Web Jam, Ian Henshaw decided to show a website for 'honey-dos' where wives could email requests to their husbands online, and husbands would receive an email that their partner had done this. Ian Henshaw went on to explain that when husbands visited the site for themselves to pick up these messages, they would be bombarded with messages informing them that they weren't real men, they were 'pussies' and their lives were miserable. I do realise it is not clear from my description that this is supposed to be funny. However I didn't view it that way. Women were depicted as being demanding life-ruining bitches. How is this supposed to make me feel safe and welcome?
This was all on the very first day. I think either complaints had been made or the female side of the organising crew gave out strong words (or the main offenders were all hung over), because it was much better the next day. It is clear to me that when organising a conference, you cannot trust your speakers. You need to give them a description of acceptable professional conduct, and ensure they stick to it. That, or you get people you already know are professionals and know how to behave accordingly.
There were a few things that I learnt that were interesting. Sadly, my remembered experience was not these things. I was quite angry at the end of that day. I would have hoped we were all past this.
I can well understand that women do not attend these events if that is the expected behaviour level.
I think it is important, that I as a female in the IT world, blog about my experiences at WebDU, particularly after the discussions of late concerning women in conferences, both attending and presenting.
I turned up to Web Essentials/Directions (Essential Directions?) in 2005 and 2006, both were really seriously cool. But they were cooler than I actually realised: I felt as though these conferences was occurring in a safe and happy environment, and I'm sorry to the fantastic team behind Web Directions that I sort of took it for granted. I realised how I took that for granted at WebDU.
I did experience behaviours that I felt were unacceptable at that conference. And it wasn't from the audience; it was from the speakers. Though admittedly, not from the Adobe/Macromedia sales team. Though the behaviour has coloured my perception of that corporation.
a. They opened up the conference with a cartoon depiction of a housewife beheading, exploding and poisoning her family. It is in serious bad taste for numerous reasons: one, it's an inauspicious start, two, it shows that Aussie men still think of women as being housewives and not professionals (all of the other characters were male). Males thought that was funny; I don't think many women did. I certainly didn't. Nearly all depictions of developers or IT people in these cartoons were male.
b. Ian Henshaw from Sitening decided to use a picture of a busty bikini model as part of his slideshow with the explanation "he didn't expect so many women". I was shocked. I felt like an outsider simply because of my gender. You know what? I don't care if you know you are giving that presentation only to men, that slide is still not OK.
c. In the WebJam, there were pictorial representations of sex. I might be a prude, but still when it has become acceptable to display those sorts of charicatures at a professional setting? And yes, WebDU is a professional setting. You have invited people, from all backgrounds, all places, all ages, all genders, to come. For a lone female from another state, that's quite a brave thing to do. You have to ensure that they all feel safe and welcome. You wouldn't see this behaviour anywhere else.
d. In the WebJam again. Someone was showing us some characters he had made (or had found, for a game or online reality) that he called Hef (a cross between Hugh Hefner and a cow) and his 'playgirl' performing in just a bikini. Does anyone think that would make me feel welcome?
e. In the Web Jam, Ian Henshaw decided to show a website for 'honey-dos' where wives could email requests to their husbands online, and husbands would receive an email that their partner had done this. Ian Henshaw went on to explain that when husbands visited the site for themselves to pick up these messages, they would be bombarded with messages informing them that they weren't real men, they were 'pussies' and their lives were miserable. I do realise it is not clear from my description that this is supposed to be funny. However I didn't view it that way. Women were depicted as being demanding life-ruining bitches. How is this supposed to make me feel safe and welcome?
This was all on the very first day. I think either complaints had been made or the female side of the organising crew gave out strong words (or the main offenders were all hung over), because it was much better the next day. It is clear to me that when organising a conference, you cannot trust your speakers. You need to give them a description of acceptable professional conduct, and ensure they stick to it. That, or you get people you already know are professionals and know how to behave accordingly.
There were a few things that I learnt that were interesting. Sadly, my remembered experience was not these things. I was quite angry at the end of that day. I would have hoped we were all past this.
I can well understand that women do not attend these events if that is the expected behaviour level.

My adviceis to let more than your LJ-readers know. Write a physical letter to the organizers of the conference complaining about the offensive nature of the presentations and suggesting that they pull their socks up. If you are a member of the ACS (or similiar societies), write a letter to the editors of the newsletter or review the disappointing technical conference. Possibly even complain to the vendors sponsoring the conference about the meterial presented. "Professional" means being professional, and that means respecting your fellow workers.
While I haven't suffered this type of harrassement I've seem it's destructive effects too many times. [1]
[1] Although I do hold that holding a door open for a woman is chivalrous rather than chauvanistic, if they ask me to stop I will. [2]
[2] Although this did result in the person asking me to stop doing so attempting to walk through an unopened glass door. You can't win; you can't break-even; you can't quit the game...
(Anonymous)
"Ian Henshaw from Sitening decided to use a picture of a busty bikini model as part of his slideshow with the explanation "he didn't expect so many women". I was shocked. I felt like an outsider simply because of my gender. You know what? I don't care if you know you are giving that presentation only to men, that slide is still not OK."
I saw that - and I cringed when he showed that, I was like what the?! Is he allowed to even show that. I'm glad some of the ladies, have issues with this, I was a guy sitting there, and I had major issues with it.
1) In't this a professional conference?
2) Isnt this completely inappropriate? I thought that was a bit of a joke really
"In the WebJam, there were pictorial representations of sex. I might be a prude, but still when it has become acceptable to display those sorts of charicatures at a professional setting? And yes, WebDU is a professional setting. "
I didnt go to the webjam session - but that's sad to hear, very disappointingly to gear actually.
"I can well understand that women do not attend these events if that is the expected behavior level." I think deamon should do something to address this , its a bit of a joke really.
I felt the same as you did. Good to see someone else expressing their opinion, and it wasn't just me.
Sherif
http://www.blog.sherifmansour.com
Your code of conduct is a good idea - while I don't see much trouble in academic conferences (mostly because - at least at the ones I attend - the presenter would be ripped to shreds if anything sexist was displayed, and rightly so), I suspect that many of these professional conferences rely on presenters who are professional IT developers rather than professional presenters.
webDU
This was my first WebDU, and I had previously commented (http://manwithnoblog.com) that I hoped this wasn't going to turn into a male geek fest. Sadly I think it did. A lot of the comments at the banquet and Microsoft party and other corridor talk was just very sexist.
I also noted out of the wide range of talent (gender aside) only one female speaker could be found (power to you Brandy). This was frankly disgusting. I know there are a few star ColdFusion / Flex / and Flash non male gurus in Australia / New Zealand. Seems no one bothered to approach them.
I know a lot of conferences run with a code of conduct, and at the speaker briefs they ensure people know what is not acceptable. Forcing some to redo slides or comments.
Day two wasn't that better, you just didn't hear the comments in the open.
The WebJams. Okay this is like a web-geek open mic at the pub. The organisers have no idea what they are going to get. And to vet them would be unfair. The only way to stop some of the sexism on for the webjam is to change the attitude in general.
What do you think would help women attend these events? I know I didn't like the high male ratio.
Re: webDU
My first thought is that we need some sort of group that involves women that have a label that conferences can stick on their material. Perhaps a logo of a professional body, such as AWIA or WIPA? To show that it complies with the standards that the professional bodies expect. Conferences that don't comply to certain policies don't get the tick. For instance, like the heart foundation tick. (I'm thinking on the run with this one).
You might think this is going backwards, but I think it would improve confidence in some conferences, and thus improve the female attendee ratio for those conferences.
It may even lift the general level of standards.
(Anonymous)
For those who would like some context, here is a link to the Day One keynote adverts:
http://video.onflex.org/2007/03/22/webdu-d
Perhaps this will give you some appreciation of the level of sexism represented. It's worth noting that one of the two animators was in fact a women.
Geoff Bowers
Conference Manager
http://www.webdu.com.au/
I should add, though, that the gender of the animators was irrelevant.
(Anonymous)
I have been working in IT for five years now and I also studied computer science before that where I was quite often the only girl in my classes, soo I guess I am used to just being one of the boys. But I gotta say I actually did find most of the things you found sexist and unwelcoming to be funny. I laughed heartily along with the ColdFusion cartoon, and the webjamming speakers didn't offend me at all, I personally thought Jon Henshaw's site was pretty darn funny, and the "someone" who presented the Hef cartoons was none other than the organiser himself Geoff Bowers..
None of it offended me at all, the only one I would agree was perhaps not entirely appropriate was when Jon Henshaw showed the bikini clad babe, but again it didn't offend me, just was perhaps not entirely appropriate.
(Anonymous)
Regarding the playgirl cartoon character dancing in a bikini, that and the tauren (cow character) hef are both from the game world of warcraft a game 8.5 million people play including children. If you type /dance the character will dance, each race and gender have their own dance, the dance of the night elf female is the dance you saw, the dance of the blood elf male is the napolean dynamite dance. I believe the game has a rating ESRB Rating: T - (Teen) in Australia.
A video of world of warcraft dances can be seen at: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1
Jason.
(Anonymous)
Conference openers and sexism
We created the animations that opened the conference, so I'll chime in with my 2c.
But first, let me just say that I do find it very disheartening that you came away with such a bad experience. I really appreciate WebDU as a brilliant opportunity to meet great developers from around the world, and the actual engineers and managers who guide the products with which we make our living (and art!), without having to travel to the other side of the planet. Geoff and Julie do a great job putting on WebDU, and they're not some big corporate blank wall: I'm sure your comments will be taken on board.
I can't speak to your other points (wasn't in the session mentioned and missed a lot of WebJam), but let me explain our take on the animation:
"They opened up the conference with a cartoon depiction of a housewife beheading, exploding and poisoning her family."
This is true. It's a parody of a 50's commercial, where some SuperProduct makes life easier for a housewife. Our take was that her real problem wasn't the mess caused by her family, but more their complete lack of respect for her, so anything that really solves her problems involved bumping off those thoughtless jerks. Our tongues were firmly in our cheeks: we weren't saying 'all women are blood-crazed housewives' any more than we were truly stating at the end that Celine Dion is worse than global warming (although have you heard the "You Shook Me All Night Long" cover?)
It's the same with the other animations: a kid smoking five FlashLite ciggies at once won't make him 80% faster, stronger and cooler; FlashOs cereal doesn't actually come with a free boombox; and Flex won't transform you into a musclebound hunk of homoerotic hotness (sorry guys).
As posted by someone else, two of the animators are female. Now, that's of little consequence except that they're both kick-ass rockin' women who wouldn't put up with sexist crap.
So while I certainly empathise with your point, I think you're misdirecting your anger at that animation. I'd be happy to post it and let people comment: if it really riles people, then we'll have a long, hard look at ourselves. We're not corporate blank walls either.
I'll close with a final note: Bek has presented at various conferences (and career nights at girls' schools), and has often been a lone female voice in the geek wilderness. So by all means, rattle some cages with your experiences, but perhaps even better, submit a brilliant presentation to WebDU next year. Then get up and lead from the front: show people what a professional, engaging, non-sexist speaker can do :)
Cheers
Minty Hunter
Nectarine
Perhaps the only male WIFT (Women In Film and TV) award winner (they thought, given my name, that I was female, and loved the film I'd edited).
Re: Conference openers and sexism
Australian sexual harassment, media/broadcasting, content classification, and equal opportunity laws are pretty clear - if someone feels that the content is inappropriate - it probably is. Particularly in the realm of sexual/gender bias or representation - a woman can offend another woman just as much as a man can.
Having reviewed the opening 'adverts' [http://video.onflex.org/2007/03/22/web
(Anonymous)
Its time to put away the knives kids.
You had me until that part, and you lost me. Sorry, but thats being sexist as well. Assuming all men are like this? I'm not?
As for the cartoon, “And if I laugh at any mortal thing, ‘Tis that I may not weep,”
In that the comic sense is parasitical upon the tragic. In order to avoid our tragic encounters with the transitoriness of passing fact, the fading of beauty, the destructive consequences of moral evil, alienation from the primary source of value, we make fun. The making of fun where no real occasion for fun exists is essentially what comedy is about. Tragedy and comedy are, indeed, but two masks worn by the same character alternately, depending on the exigencies of the moment; that is, depending upon which mask best represents him in such a way as successfully to reduce the unacceptable tensions of his ambience. Thus the obvious truth of Socrates’ argument at the end of the Symposium. Both tragedy and comedy are but one-sided expressions of the ironic sensibility
I think you had an issue with an indivudal at a "party" setting (which it clearly labled on WebDU's site), and to throw this as being a WebDU Conference norm, is actually inaccurate.
I'm not saying you had no right to be offended or not, I'm simply stating that it needs to be drawn back to context of the situation and not a generalised "All Aussie men at WebDU are evil".
I can appreciate the offense itself, but it frustrates me that you'd assume WebDU is sexist conference is all.
Scott
Re: Its time to put away the knives kids.
I expected a professional conference. Perhaps, in your eyes, I was wrong?
I am a web developer in Washington DC
A bikini clad woman wouldn't have had a place in a slide show without it being a in a really obvious context, like an ad to go to the Caribbean.
Also, my perception may be colored by the fact that we wouldn't have seen a Cold Fusion commercial like that here, but the thing that got me wasn't the housewife thing, although, I seldom see that kind of image at a web related conference.
It was the 2-3 "toasting" instances in the cartoon that seemed to focus on the mommy character's breasts.
That on top of the housewife with cooking and cleaning image floored me. It popped out at me as it happened and it would have made me feel uncomfortable to see that in a professional environment.
I'm not surprised that the manwithnoblog would be insensitive to that, I must admit. Short of seeing nipples there, I'm not sure WHAT would have offended him.
(Anonymous)
Re: I am a web developer in Washington DC
Um, there was only one instance. And yes, as the jump-cut in to the closeup of the toast had the woman in the wide shot, she was also in the background of the close up.
In our defence, she was a woman, so she did have breasts*. And they were fully covered. And of somewhat average, non-inflated size. Oh, and she's a 2D-rendered cartoon woman...
That on top of the housewife with cooking and cleaning image floored me.
Apart from the fact we never see her cooking or cleaning, she is represented as a housewife. It's a 50s ad parody. And the dialogue "Sick of cleaning up other people's breadcrumb trails?" and delivery gives a reasonably clear indication of that...
Hey, where are the outraged people complaining about the 'ad' where we show a kid smoking five FlashLite ciggies at once? C'mon folks, get with it! ;-)
Cheers,
Minty Hunter
Nectarine
* With apologies for any discomfort caused by the inherent implication of this statement to anybody who's had a masectomy or who's trans-gender. But then like most people I know who are in that category, your status as a woman is hardly entirely determined by your breasts...
Re: I am a web developer in Washington DC
It appeared to be twice to me, I'm not sure why, and I don't care. The fact is, you weren't careful. Period.
(Anonymous)
Re: I am a web developer in Washington DC
There are any number of reasons why just a shoulder or using her head would have been a bad animation move (framing/too much distracting detail/bad physical continuity etc). But the basic fact is it was just someone in the background. If you have such an issue with _any_ depiction of a female torso, if you think it's inherently sexist regardless of context or style of depiction, then I think we head into areas of blanket censorship. Sigh. That's kind of demeaning to everyone's intelligence.
"It appeared to be twice to me, I'm not sure why, and I don't care."
If you want other people to consider whether they're producing things that may be sexist, and you want them to change, then coming from a viewpoint of not just denying reality but actively not giving a damn is kind of regressive.
Let me be clear. I'm not advocating sexism. But I do find it sad, for instance, that one of my favourite pieces of animation would stand little chance of being produced today. It's in Dumbo: the pink elephant scene. It's astounding and mesmerising. But it happens because Dumbo accidentally gets drunk. And there are some animation studios with specific dictums banning any depiction of drunken-ness, even in flying elephants.
I stand by the parody of a 50s commercial because it _does_ show how far we've come from those times. I stand by the ability to take the piss out of things, and the fact that an image of (un-inflated 2D covered) breasts may appear in a shot. I think people are more than reactionary robots who need blanket bans.
Can we move on past an imagined repeating of a 2 second clip and look at the real issues of increasing the female demographic and reducing sexism? Hey, we haven't even tackled the homoerotic undertones in the Flex animation! ("are you saying all Flex developers are gay?? Be careful!")
Returning you to your regular programming...
Re: I am a web developer in Washington DC
Re: I am a web developer in Washington DC
The "husband's" crotch area would have been equally unacceptable to be focusing on, covered, inflated or not.
Whether it repeated itself because of how the video played on my computer doesn't matter as much as the inappropriateness of the picture itself, covered or not, the picture was not appropriate for a work environment.
I did not imagine the picture, it was in the animation.
Your nonsense does not distract from that.
(Anonymous)
Re: I am a web developer in Washington DC
Mate, you're completely right. You've made me see the light, and I realise that I have been talking nonsense.
Consider it a given that any future animation we produce will never have a female character so that there is no chance that any background shot will include breasts, whether inflated/uninflated/covered/2d/any type whatsoever. In this way, the tyranny of sexism will be defeated.
My cousin's on the case too. Can you believe in his medical lecture the other day he was shown THE ENTIRE FEMALE REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM? I mean, they FOCUSED ON IT IN GRAPHIC DETAIL! He's going to talk to those sexist pigs and sort them right out.
Cheers
Minty Hunter
sexual harrassment/'inappropriateness'
regarding unprofessional behaviour - a couple of points:
it is sexual harassment if you feel that it is. the law on this is reasonably clear (considering the messiness of such things) - and you are entitled to be taken seriously if you complain or even make a comment to those responsible for organising/running things.
this kind of idiocy is one reason why computer 'professionals' are having a hard time being taken seriously as professionals by other professions. i can't imagine any of those examples occurring at a law conference, for example. regardless of how ad hoc its organisation.
i say "ditto" for
(Anonymous)
Re: sexual harrassment/'inappropriateness'
"was this the first WebDU?"
I think it's about the fifth. First time that this has come up (to my knowledge, but I'm not a webDU organiser).
"it is sexual harassment if you feel that it is."
I agree. Though, as you can see from the above, sometimes the idea of everyone's own individual realities having equal credence can get messy ('there were 2-3 repetitions of a CU of a woman's breasts, and even if there wasn't, I don't care!').
As per previous comments, I agree that Rowli's comments need serious consideration. I’d just say that if you experience sexism at a conference, talk then and there to the organisors first. That’s most effective; in WebDU’s case, Geoff, Julie, Vanessa or Erietta were widely available. Then post second if you have no joy (or post positively if you do!).
Posting publicly without talking to the organisers first can lead to trial-by-blogging. Kay Smoljak's seemed to place Rowli's experiences above her own positive personal ones at previous webDUs. And Gary's taken the WebDU folks to task for private comments by attendees, something that is hard to control.
By all means, raise the issues; our sector could definitely do with it. But please let's head forward in an effective way, rather than laying the blame for an industry-wide issue at the feet of one small conference without even giving them a chance to respond privately and positively first.
(Anonymous)
Re: sexual harrassment/'inappropriateness'
Minty Hunter
Nectarine
Re: sexual harrassment/'inappropriateness'
the issue is important, and needs to be discussed openly and widely. whether she brought it up at the conference or not. gender balance is an issue, and has been one, for quite a while.
i'm less worried about that rowli chose to post about her concerns than i am about the reactions that have followed. an opportunity to display professionalism has been handled rather unevenly, unfortunately.
methinks that acting like a profession is at least part of the process of being treated as professionals. ethics, and ethical responses to ethical issues would be a significant part of that endeavour. [something currently being highlighted by the australian computer society, for example.]
it might be worth contemplating whether it is reasonable to expect a young person who feels upset about certain conduct by more senior people to challenge them, or their peers, about that behaviour. one reason for having independent third parties as 'complaints' bodies is to afford people a 'safe' place to have their concerns addressed.
in this situation, a simple apology from an organiser was probably all that was needed - recognition that her disappointment was taken seriously. the only other thing that would make sense to add might have been to ask if, otherwise, she enjoyed the conference or found some value in attending.
(Anonymous)
WebDU Sexism
Hi RowliRowl,
I'm sorry to hear you didn't have a great experience at WebDU. I have attended or spoken at every event since it started and have yet to hear anything I would classify as sexist behaviour.
What puzzles me is why WebDU would "colour your perception of Adobe" - Adobe is a Platinum sponsor of the WebDU (and we also manage to wrangle a few speaker positions) but it is not an Adobe run event like MAX. The WebDU conference is a completely independent one run by Daemon (as per Geoff's earlier comments).
The animations used during the conference are designed (independently) by Nectarine, who IMHO have done an outstanding job over the years in bringing a bit of light-hearted frivolity to the event.
Its also worth noting that Ian (Jon?) Henshaw (the speaker who seems to have offended you the most) is not an Adobe employee nor related to the company.
Once again, i'm sorry you had a less than favourable experience at WebDU, and I trust given the above info you have a clearer picture of how Adobe actually fits into the WebDU conference.
Matt Voerman
Senior Consultant
Adobe Systems Incorporated
Re: WebDU Sexism
that is, after all, one reason for sponsoring. the kudos from supporting a good event.
doth work both ways, however.
perhaps the next event she experiences where adobe is a major sponsor can rehabilitate her perception of your brand?
(Anonymous)
Re: WebDU Sexism
Cheers
Minty
(Anonymous)
Re: WebDU Sexism
Cheers
Minty
Re: WebDU Sexism
Chill Out
WebDU is as far as a know one of the best conferences in Australia and I would hate to see it becoming a boring, corporate, censored, full of "ticks" type of event.
If anything, I vote for a tick that stands for:
"If you cannot handle funny jokes and must look for sexism crap all over the place, PLEASE DON'T COME!". Tick.
I have been attending IT conferences for many years overseas and always have a blast around the guys. I have been hired by men for many projects while attending these events. They always respect me because I respect them. I too would never stand for REAL sexism!
I ask the organizers and Nectarine to PLEASE not let this change the nature of the conference or censor your creativity next year.
It is 2007 just in case we all need a reminder. You could spend your entire life looking and bit@*#ng about all sorts of things. It's everywhere. Take a chill pill...relax.
Personally, I prefer to spend my time working with CS3. Yeah baby!
(Anonymous)
Re: Chill Out
Re: Chill Out
Sexism is a very interesting issue, and quite an insidious thing. It is difficult to see because it is steeped within our culture, which is something we construct. We don't necessarily see something as sexist because our culture tells us it is normal. There have been comments along the lines of "this is 2007 and there is no more sexism in our community". Sadly, this is just false, as our culture informs us to treat various sexes differently. A recent study showed that job applications were judged differently on the gender of the applicant.
The gender issue is also one of culture; males and females have different cultures. It is important to understand that and respect each other's cultural differences. Each individual has various backgrounds and experiences feeding into their individual culture, which again impacts upon their viewpoint.
So if someone 'sees' sexism, that would be function of their various cultures, informing their perception of normal.
There would not be many deliberately searching for sexism. To imply that I was is unfair. What I saw on the first day, and only on the first day, did not fit within my perception of normal. It wasn't just one thing. Sometimes people can mean to say one thing and somehow the audience understands something else. These things can happen. But when something else happens along, followed along by something else, it does make you think "hmmmm".
The other question is, since there are at least two other people who also questioned some of the material, perhaps there are many other silent individuals, who have thought something similar at previous conferences (not necessarily just WebDU). I find it interesting that in six months time a conference in the same field will have a female attendee ratio of close to 50%. The ratio of the WebDU conference was nowhere near that. Wouldn't it be interesting to ask why?
(Anonymous)
Re: Chill Out
I think I know which conference you are referring to...but it has a vastly different agenda...covering front end design, IA, management stuff and the like. webDU is much more developer focused which must influence the male/female ratio. Think that comment is a tad unfair.
I was at webDU too, (am female btw) and saw the same sessions you did. Personally I didn't take offence to any material. But in regard to the industry you gotta admit that the ratio of females in a project management/production role (like me) is a lot higher than the ratio of females in developer roles. But who's to say that won't change over time? I just think that the M/F attendance at the two conferences reflect their agendas. Having said that I've been to the last 2 webDUs and I thought there were quite a few of us ladies this year.
--Harriet
Re: Chill Out
The assumption underlying the idea that the ratio at a conference would reflect the ratio out in the field, is that there is neglible difference between the genders.
I don't hold that to be true. Simplifying, the genders are constructed along a duality (emotional vs intellectual, private vs public) and that the female gender is constructed to be more social and group-oriented.
I would think you would have a higher percentage of female attendees than in actual practice, and a much lesser percentage for speakers.
(Anonymous)
Re: Chill Out
There is still sexism in 2007. And people should speak up! But my guess is that the comments simply refer to the fact that this victim role, rather then the power role is a thing of the past.
"I find it interesting that in six months time a conference in the same field will have a female attendee ratio of close to 50%."
ah... perhaps all this is just a viral campaign for 'a conference in the same field'?
(Anonymous)
Re: Chill Out
The organisers don't even know me. If you asked them, I am 99.999% confident, they would ask, "Who?"
(Anonymous)
Re: Chill Out
Point a - I think you took it abit far out of context IMHO. Especially, with the time period that it was depicting. There was also another animation advert. which depicted the subject as a same sex couple at the end, does that mean that webDU is anti-gay(or pro-gay) as well? I think it will be unfair and taking it too far, I don't believe any of the animations had any hidden agenda, besides advertising for the sponsors and having a laugh :)...
Its like that law that was passed in one of the states of US of A where master/slave usage in relations to HDDs was outlawed(?), and companies officially have to use primary/secondary. How politically correct do we have to be as a society/community ?
Point b-e - I do agree that those mentioned instances are sexist, however content shown at webJam is not a representation to the event organisers nor any of the sponsors (even if they worked at Daemon or Adobe), maybe daemon could look at releasing strict guidelines for webJam.
Issues are not addressed by pretending that it doesn't exist and sweeping it under the rugs. i.e. If people did not behave in a sexist manner does that mean sexism doesn't exist?
Anyway, considering that this event was geared more towards the developer side of things (CF 8 and Flex 2), I thought the ratio was fairly decent.
I am sure daemon would like to know how to boost the ratio, as well as the numbers attending. :)
And for the record I am not female.
--- KC Kuok
Re: Chill Out
As politically correct as we have ever had to be. PC is not a new thing. It's not something the lefties have only recently put together.
Ah! Now we get to an interesting thing. WebJAM was held at the same venue, in the same rooms with the same set up, treated as though it were part of WebDU. I think it reasonable then it is covered by the same level of professional behaviour as WebDU itself. I think it is reasonable that people have this expectation.
If they do not wish it to be covered at that level, then they must ensure that people know it is very different, they must make it clear. A part of this would be making it a different venue, and encouraging people to go, but not including it on their program.
Recently, I have heard differing ratios of the sexes in the IT workforce, ranging from 20 (DCITA)-26% (ACS). If there is no discernible difference between the genders, the attendee ratio should be about the same. I didn't think it was. I also think there is a discernible difference between the genders. I think the female gender is much more likely to turn up to a conference than the male. I think you should have a much higher ratio of women at conferences than you do in the workforce, simply because of the way the gender is constructed.
I think that if your numbers are not adding up, you need to ask why are women silently vetoing the conference? Women do silently veto - that's what their gender tells them to do. If they dislike something, very few women are outspoken enough to speak up, the majority will simply not come back, and not speak out.
(Anonymous)
Hello from Janek Makowski
Regards,
Janek
(Anonymous)
When we were looking around for a candidate to work with us we really sat down and thought about personality-wise what we wanted and didn't want. We were all late 20-something guys at that point in life. Its been my experience that this is the norm in most of the circles I've traveled but a group of guys, especially in that age range tend to act 'immature'. Anyhow we were a closely knit bunch and had some of the best times at work because nothing was out of bounds.... nothing. We would say anything without fear of reprimand around each other. Some things cruel, some things mean but overall meant to be funny. At the end of the day there were no hard feelings and we all used it as chances to blow off steam to some extent and not get into arguments over dumb stuff.
Anyhow when we sat down we really said wow this sucks, but we really do not want to hire a female unless she fit a significantly small pinhole percentage of ones we had worked with to this point in our life. The reasoning was simple, most would never be able to tolerate 1 minute of how we really acted with our guards down around each other while trying to have a good time and work some crazy 12-14 hours days. It was a very disheartening realization on a personal level, but I've found even to this day in 95% of the cases its reigned true in the work circles I've been in to this point.
So more to the point, maybe they felt it was humorous in their circles and you are being too hard on it. I'm not invalidating your feelings, just saying it seems a bit harsh. There is still a valid point of professionalism at a conference event where most attendees are not your close friends, that I wholeheartedly agree on. To say you don't feel safe though? That seems a bit overzealous to me. If random pictures projected on a screen make you feel 'unsafe' maybe you need to analyze why?
Explanation & Apology
First off, I never would have (and never have before) shown something like that in the United States where I live. It was my impression that the event in Sydney was a little more raucous and fun than what we have here in the US. When I put in that slide, I thought it was funny (not purposefully sexist). However, when I presented it, I felt like a total dumbass, and knew immediately that it didn't belong. So, for anyone I offended, please forgive me. It was a mistake and I guarantee you that I'll never do anything like that again.
Secondly, there was complaining about the "Honey Do" site that I showed off at the WebJam. That's something I'm not sorry about. If you can't laugh at something like that, especially in a forum like WebJam, then our sense of humor is never going to obtain any middle ground. Every woman and man I've shown that to has busted out laughing. Why? Because it's funny. And it certainly isn't something to be taken seriously.
(Anonymous)
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